<span style="color: rgb(19, 19, 19); font-family: Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; white-space-collapse: preserve; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.05);">In this conversation, Matt Pandel discusses his journey as a psychologist and author of 'Fractured Witness.' He shares insights on church hurt, the importance of community, and the need for vulnerability in healing. 

The discussion explores the difference between systems and individual responsibility within the church, emphasizing that trust is earned and should not be conflated with honor. Pandel addresses the complexities of abuse within church systems and advocates for safe spaces for healing, ultimately highlighting the significance of understanding the nature of God and the church's role in fostering a supportive community. 

This conversation also explores the intersection of technology and community, the complexities of fear and vulnerability, and the role of emotions in faith. They discuss the challenges of certainty in belief systems and emphasize love as a foundational element for unity within the church. The dialogue highlights the need for new approaches in church dynamics, focusing on understanding and connection rather than division.</span>

Matt Pandel / Fractured Witness